I would keep Rojas and trade Urias. I would also try to dump DeSclafani and Urias as part of a bigger trade. Let's say a trade with the Pirates of...
SP Bryan Woo, 2B/SS Cole Young, RP Justin Topa ($1.25M), OF Alberto Rodriguez, 2B/3B Luis Urias ($5M), and SP Anthony DeSclafani ($12M) *more or less* and maybe even kick in $1M to make it cash neutral
for
OF Bryan Reynolds ($10.25M), 3B Ke'Bryan Hayes ($7M), SP Jared Jones, and RP Dauri Moreta.
Think the Pirates will want more MLB ready players, I have a three-way trade idea with the Twins included...
Mariners get:
OF Bryan Reynolds, 3B Ke'Bryan Hayes, SP Jared Jones, UT Willi Castro, RP Dauri Moreta
Pirates get:
SP Bryan Woo, SP Bailey Ober, 2B/SS Cole Young, 2B Jorge Polanco, OF Alex Kirilloff, OF Max Kepler, IF Luis Urias
Twins get:
SP Mitch Keller, 1B Ty France, RP Justin Topa, SP Anthony DeSclafani, OF Josh Palacios, OF Alberto Rodriguez
Both of the trades above are roughly cash neutral, while both make the team significantly better. The Pirates benefit by getting out from under long-term commitments with their TV rights now an issue. Instead of hoping Nick Gonzales is ready, in the first trade Luis Urias potentially buys them some time or could move to 3B if Triolo isn't ready to take over. In the second trade, which I like better for everyone, Polanco solidifies 2B for a couple seasons, while the Pirates get to use Triolo, Urias, or Gonzales at 3B with the other two acting as utility infielders. Keep in mind these aren't meant to be exact, but rather show there's a path to doing cash neurtral-ish trades that make the team better.
The Twins get a #2/#3 in Keller and they also get a more stable 4th/5th starter in DeSclafani for the cost of what a #4 starter is going for in free agency. There's enough depth and upside in the minors for the Twins to replace DeSclafani by 2025 or sooner. France offers about as much certainty as Kepler with the bat as both have been a little up and down, while Palacios/Rodriguez should be able to offer Kirilloff level upside. Topa solidifies the bullpen and any extra money can be used to improve the lineup which seems to be the cheaper path to improvement in free agency. Julien, Correa, and Lewis are probably your other infielders, while Miranda, Gordon, and Farmer fill utility roles. There's also Martin and Lee in the minors that could push from AAA onto the big league roster, while Julien could move to a corner outfield location to make room for the nest man up on the Twins. Minnesota trades away a projected 2.1 fWAR (Ober) in pitching and 7.3fWAR (Kepler, Polanco, Kirilloff, and Castro) in position players. The pitching they get back projects to 3.6 fWAR (Keller/Topa), while the hitting projects to 3.0 fWAR, however the projections seem overly bullish on the Twins and a little bearish on the Twins return, but I'm not sure this wouldn't be addition by subtraction for Minnesota, as they have a log jam at some positions.
The Mariners part of these trades are pretty straight forward, we essentially get a long-term piece at 3B and LF, allowing us cost certainty, while trading a guy who has a lot of value to the Pirates in Woo, that isn't that far removed from health concerns. Cole Young is the piece that probably hurts the most, but filling these holes allows us to take what money we have left to go after Snell for the rotation, even if we have to revisit Jason's plan of moving Rojas/Moore/etc. to free up just a little more cash. I also don't value Young a ton as I'm much higher on Emerson, Celesten, Joseph, etc. with Crawford still a long-term fixture and Castro potentially becoming the starting 2B whether or not we trade Rojas and/or Moore. Again, this is more illustrative and more of an outline than something precise. I just keep hearing how little options we have but I think it just requires a little out of the box thinking.
Jason, do you see any chance of Dipoto kicking the M's to the curb after this season? You gotta know that the casual fan is laying all of the blame squarely on his shoulders, which isn't fair.
I would be surprised. He walked away from the Angels. Walking away again very well might mean no more high-level exec spots for Dipoto. He might spend the rest of his working life as a consultant to teams or some kind of special assistant -- or get into media.
What owners would hire him after quitting twice BECAUSE OF OWNERSHIP?
This has to be on the Mariners radar wouldn’t you think or do they try to put a square peg into a round hole….again? If this scenario happens, do you really think Haggerty, etc makes us better as far as utility or would we take a step back there? Not to over emphasize the importance of the utility/platoon player.
Offensively, Hags is at least as good as Moore. Not as much pop, but it's a 200 PA spot on the roster, if that.
They can always grab a $1M infielder, too, like a Luis Guillorme. Better to be an 85 wRC+ at 2B with three above-average additional hitters than a 95 with only TWO bats. That really could be the difference here.
It's nauseating that we have to have this conversation, all due to penny-pinching short-sighted ownership. After too many years of being willfully deceived by these assholes, who are now faced with an opportunity for real, sustained success and THEY FOLD. They have no regard for the fans or for the taxpayers who built their fabulous stadium. I'm OUT, and looking forward to freeing up some time and brain-space. Fuck this team.
Couldn't agree more on these three players. But, The issue I see is as simple as who would want these guys and take their salary? Loved France & Moore in the beginning but injuries and performance have gown downhill. Platoon guys are a dime a dozen.
France is an easy one. Too much of a track record, under-30. Hunter Renfroe, who was downright bad in 2023 -- way worse than France -- and is older, just got 2/13 from KC.
Rojas and Moore are 3.5m UT guys. Tony Kemp made $3.75M last year. Jace Peterson got $4m. Brian Anderson got $5m. Adam Frazier got $8M.
I would keep Rojas and trade Urias. I would also try to dump DeSclafani and Urias as part of a bigger trade. Let's say a trade with the Pirates of...
SP Bryan Woo, 2B/SS Cole Young, RP Justin Topa ($1.25M), OF Alberto Rodriguez, 2B/3B Luis Urias ($5M), and SP Anthony DeSclafani ($12M) *more or less* and maybe even kick in $1M to make it cash neutral
for
OF Bryan Reynolds ($10.25M), 3B Ke'Bryan Hayes ($7M), SP Jared Jones, and RP Dauri Moreta.
Think the Pirates will want more MLB ready players, I have a three-way trade idea with the Twins included...
Mariners get:
OF Bryan Reynolds, 3B Ke'Bryan Hayes, SP Jared Jones, UT Willi Castro, RP Dauri Moreta
Pirates get:
SP Bryan Woo, SP Bailey Ober, 2B/SS Cole Young, 2B Jorge Polanco, OF Alex Kirilloff, OF Max Kepler, IF Luis Urias
Twins get:
SP Mitch Keller, 1B Ty France, RP Justin Topa, SP Anthony DeSclafani, OF Josh Palacios, OF Alberto Rodriguez
Both of the trades above are roughly cash neutral, while both make the team significantly better. The Pirates benefit by getting out from under long-term commitments with their TV rights now an issue. Instead of hoping Nick Gonzales is ready, in the first trade Luis Urias potentially buys them some time or could move to 3B if Triolo isn't ready to take over. In the second trade, which I like better for everyone, Polanco solidifies 2B for a couple seasons, while the Pirates get to use Triolo, Urias, or Gonzales at 3B with the other two acting as utility infielders. Keep in mind these aren't meant to be exact, but rather show there's a path to doing cash neurtral-ish trades that make the team better.
The Twins get a #2/#3 in Keller and they also get a more stable 4th/5th starter in DeSclafani for the cost of what a #4 starter is going for in free agency. There's enough depth and upside in the minors for the Twins to replace DeSclafani by 2025 or sooner. France offers about as much certainty as Kepler with the bat as both have been a little up and down, while Palacios/Rodriguez should be able to offer Kirilloff level upside. Topa solidifies the bullpen and any extra money can be used to improve the lineup which seems to be the cheaper path to improvement in free agency. Julien, Correa, and Lewis are probably your other infielders, while Miranda, Gordon, and Farmer fill utility roles. There's also Martin and Lee in the minors that could push from AAA onto the big league roster, while Julien could move to a corner outfield location to make room for the nest man up on the Twins. Minnesota trades away a projected 2.1 fWAR (Ober) in pitching and 7.3fWAR (Kepler, Polanco, Kirilloff, and Castro) in position players. The pitching they get back projects to 3.6 fWAR (Keller/Topa), while the hitting projects to 3.0 fWAR, however the projections seem overly bullish on the Twins and a little bearish on the Twins return, but I'm not sure this wouldn't be addition by subtraction for Minnesota, as they have a log jam at some positions.
The Mariners part of these trades are pretty straight forward, we essentially get a long-term piece at 3B and LF, allowing us cost certainty, while trading a guy who has a lot of value to the Pirates in Woo, that isn't that far removed from health concerns. Cole Young is the piece that probably hurts the most, but filling these holes allows us to take what money we have left to go after Snell for the rotation, even if we have to revisit Jason's plan of moving Rojas/Moore/etc. to free up just a little more cash. I also don't value Young a ton as I'm much higher on Emerson, Celesten, Joseph, etc. with Crawford still a long-term fixture and Castro potentially becoming the starting 2B whether or not we trade Rojas and/or Moore. Again, this is more illustrative and more of an outline than something precise. I just keep hearing how little options we have but I think it just requires a little out of the box thinking.
No.
Jason, do you see any chance of Dipoto kicking the M's to the curb after this season? You gotta know that the casual fan is laying all of the blame squarely on his shoulders, which isn't fair.
I would be surprised. He walked away from the Angels. Walking away again very well might mean no more high-level exec spots for Dipoto. He might spend the rest of his working life as a consultant to teams or some kind of special assistant -- or get into media.
What owners would hire him after quitting twice BECAUSE OF OWNERSHIP?
This has to be on the Mariners radar wouldn’t you think or do they try to put a square peg into a round hole….again? If this scenario happens, do you really think Haggerty, etc makes us better as far as utility or would we take a step back there? Not to over emphasize the importance of the utility/platoon player.
Offensively, Hags is at least as good as Moore. Not as much pop, but it's a 200 PA spot on the roster, if that.
They can always grab a $1M infielder, too, like a Luis Guillorme. Better to be an 85 wRC+ at 2B with three above-average additional hitters than a 95 with only TWO bats. That really could be the difference here.
It's nauseating that we have to have this conversation, all due to penny-pinching short-sighted ownership. After too many years of being willfully deceived by these assholes, who are now faced with an opportunity for real, sustained success and THEY FOLD. They have no regard for the fans or for the taxpayers who built their fabulous stadium. I'm OUT, and looking forward to freeing up some time and brain-space. Fuck this team.
100%, Tom. It's such trash.
Couldn't agree more on these three players. But, The issue I see is as simple as who would want these guys and take their salary? Loved France & Moore in the beginning but injuries and performance have gown downhill. Platoon guys are a dime a dozen.
France is an easy one. Too much of a track record, under-30. Hunter Renfroe, who was downright bad in 2023 -- way worse than France -- and is older, just got 2/13 from KC.
Rojas and Moore are 3.5m UT guys. Tony Kemp made $3.75M last year. Jace Peterson got $4m. Brian Anderson got $5m. Adam Frazier got $8M.
They're easily moveable.